Can We Have a Discussion About Modes?

[0XI0]

No, the C major scale played from D to D is still C major. It could become D dorian in a D (minor) context, but it can never become C dorian.

what notes are in C Dorian

 

[0XI0]

D Dorian = D E F G A B C D

that's C Major, or C Dorian. D Dorian is E F# G A B C# D E

 

[came the rain]

E F# G A B C# D E

E Dorian

 

[la szum]

Anyone reading and trying to decipher this thread will be.......

 

[came the rain]

what notes are in C Dorian

C, D, E flat, F, G, A, B flat, C

 

[spawnofthesith]

that's C Major, or C Dorian. D Dorian is E F# G A B C# D E

That's just incorrect though


If thinking about it that way makes sense for you, more power to you, but things are going to get very confusing if you converse like that because it is wrong. That said, I have plenty of my own little ways I think about certain theory aspects that are formally incorrect but serve as a shortcut in my own head

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'm just writing some stuff about modes. I hope it'll help some folks along but I'm afraid it'll take a little while as it turned out to become a little essay already...

 

[0XI0]

then the mode name is only referencing the interval pattern...the mode note is just the starting note. mode name and note being entirely independent of actual key, in context

 

[0XI0]

C, D, E flat, F, G, A, B flat, C

C Dorian = B flat Major = B flat Ionian

 

[JasonE]

I'm just writing some stuff about modes. I hope it'll help some folks along but I'm afraid it'll take a little while as it turned out to become a little essay already...

I am following what you are posting and appreciate seeing it. I have been planning a deep dive into this stuff and what you are posting is right along with what I already know. It is good to read that as a reminder and get the brain thinking about it.

 

[JasonE]

C Dorian = B flat Major = B flat Ionian

There you go.

 

[Sascha Franck]

then the mode name is only referencing the interval pattern...

Correct.
And the interval formula for, say, dorian would be: 1, 2, 3-, 4, 5, 6, 7.

the mode note is just the starting note. mode name and note being entirely independent of actual key, in context

Sure. Obviously, all modes can exist in all keys.

 

[came the rain]

C Dorian = B flat Major = B flat Ionian

Yes. Made up of the same notes.

Easy Modes of the Major Scale reference guide:

Excerpted from:

Modes of the Major Scale - Theory and Sound

Add some 'exotic' flavour to your music by exploring the modes of the major scale.

theoryandsound.com

However I haven’t read the site. Though it looks promising.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, let's get a bit into modes.
As said, we won't care about others than those deriving from the major scale (maybe later). And as I'm a lazy f*ck, I will at least start the way pretty much everybody starts, namely with the modes of the C major scale (everybody doing so has led to oh-so-funny jokes such as "Hey, please play F dorian" - "But I thought F was lydian..."). I might throw in some other baseline scales for good measure.

Ok, the typical blurb first:

The main idea of modes is being able to grab pretty much each individual note of a major scale and sort of transform it into a tonic (as in "we're home here!") chord.
Note: Parts of that may derive from medieval monks singing and what not, but that's a sort of halfassed thing - but at least the names of the modes are borrowed from that kinda stuff. Just don't make the mistake and look up those monk singing things to translate it into todays meaning of modes.

So, let's take a quick look at our C major scale, goes like:
C, D, E, F, G, A, B
And guess what? Once you can play around with that a bit, you've almost mastered your first mode already. In modal lingo, the major scale is as well known as the "ionian" mode/scale.

Now, before we continue, we need to get a tad more nerdy and analyze that mode. In the end, that's what allows us to distinguish (or rather describe) a mode's character from other mode's characters.
In case of our C major (from now on also known as "ionian") scale, that'd look like (function of note in parenthesis):

C - root (1)
D - major second (2)
E - major third (3+)
F - perfect fourth (4)
G - perfect fifth (5)
A - major sixth (6)
B - major seventh (j7)

Resulting mode: C ionian (also known as major scale)

Note: You might find all sorts of symbols to specify the functions, such as #7 or 7+ for the major seventh. But life is too short to care about that for now.

If we proceed, we can do the same for each note of the scale. So let's do just that:

D - root (1)
E - major second (2)
F - minor third (3-)
G - perfect fourth (4)
A - perfect fifth (5)
B - major sixth (6)
C - minor seventh (7)

Resulting mode: D dorian

E - root (1)
F - minor second (b2)
G - minor third (3-)
A - perfect fourth (4)
B - perfect fifth (5)
C - minor sixth (b6)
D - minor seventh (7)

Resulting mode: E phrygian

F - root (1)
G - major second (2)
A - major third (3+)
B - augmented fourth (#4)
C - perfect fifth (5)
D - major sixth (6)
E - major seventh (j7)

Resulting mode: F lydian

G - root (1)
A - major second (2)
B - major third (3+)
C - perfect fourth (4)
D - perfect fifth (5)
E - major sixth (6)
F - minor seventh (7)

Resulting mode: G mixolydian

A - root (1)
B - major second (2)
C - minor third (3-)
D - perfect fourth (4)
E - perfect fifth (5)
F - minor sixth (b6)
G - minor seventh (7)

Resulting mode: A aeolian (also known as natural minor scale)

B - root (1)
C - minor second (b2)
D - minor third (3-)
E - perfect fourth (4)
F - diminished fifth (b5)
G - minor sixth (b6)
A - minor seventh (7)

Resulting mode: B locrian

Very important note: This is a bone dry posting that I will just leave here as is, serving as a reference. It offers pretty much zero practical value so far.

And to make matters worse: The next posting will likely be just as bone dry again. But after that, things might get interesting.

If anyone has any questions, fire away.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Easy Modes of the Major Scale reference guide:

That's a pretty good chart!
Personally, I do however not exactly recommend the halftone/wholetone structuring. I think it serves little (if any) purposes, the interval quality however (which is also presented in that chart) IMO is *the* key thing to be aware of. The "quality" tab is a good one, too, as it shows the deviation from the "typical" major and minor scales (namely ionian and aeolian aka major and natural minor).

 

[Gothi]

I am a minimalist when it comes to transposing modes, I just transpose in the sequencer ;-D

If playing, chromatic steps in numbers work for me for fast transpositions, e.g. WWHWWWH = 2212221.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I guess you could just play a scale over a drone/chord but in the context of a song, it depends on where you put the tension and resolution.

Well unlike major/minor the modes function with primary and secondary modal function.
Not so much tension and release like tonal music.